Dark sky places are a great way to experience camping under the stars. Our guests, Alicia and Scott from The Route of it All, are dark sky fans and have great ways to find dark sky camping, some wonderful experiences and even apps and memberships that can help you find these magical places.

Other places to hear the podcast

Mentioned on this episode

Passport America - https://www.passport-america.com/

Alicia and Scott come to us from The Route of it All.

ASTC Association of Science and Technology Centers - https://www.astc.org/

Lowell Observatory - https://lowell.edu/

National Museum of Nuclear Science - https://www.nuclearmuseum.org/

Holloman AFB museum - https://www.nmspacemuseum.org

Gaia GPS app - https://www.gaiagps.com/

Astropheric night sky mapping - https://www.astrospheric.com

Peggy’s article on the geology and history of Mammoth Caves

Lippert propane tank monitor: https://store.lci1.com/lippert-propane-tank-sensor-2021130655

Mopeka propane tank ring: https://amzn.to/3lX3PKh

If you’re confused about solar, battery power or just want to upgrade your RV we have found the solutions from ABC Upfitters are both reliable and exceptional.

We have a podcast episode and video where you can learn more here.

Transcription of podcast episode 196

Welcome to the weekly podcast, all about turning the great American RV adventure into stress less camping. Each week we explore tips, tricks, ideas, and destinations, and talk to the happiest campers in the RV world. Pull up a seat at the campfire as we enjoy some stress less camping. 

Welcome to the group.

Yeah, I'm Tony. 

Hi, I'm Peggy. 

And we are two RV industry veterans who travel part-time 

In a small trailer 

Looking to share big adventures and help you with great 

Tips, tricks 

And discounts. 

And we are in a Passport America campground this week that is so lovely and has a group fire pit and every night they have fire pit time. So it's been lovely. And we are gonna talk more about Passport America probably next week because we're actually in the park of the owner of Passport America 

<laugh>. Yeah, it's been really nice. 

You know, we always say great tips, tricks and discounts and Passport America we have found is a pretty neat discount program to get campgrounds. 

It's also helped us plan our trip because this is an i, I wouldn't have known to come to this location if I wasn't talking to Passport America. So we will definitely talk more about that next week. 

Yep. We always carry a Hughes power watchdog with us, which is a surge suppressor or EMS electrical management system. <laugh>. That thing is neat because when before we even back into a site or pull through as the case may be right, we plug that thing in and there's a big dog on the front of it and if the dog is white, the power is good. If the dog is red, the power is bad. And we got a red dog. 

We got a red dog. But you know, it doesn't matter because with our ABC Upfitters power package, we just didn't plug in. Yeah. We just went ahead and used our power package. We let the campground know so that they could fix their problem and they were super nice and they gave us a discount and that was all great. 

Having that power package is a great backup too, right? So if the power goes out in a campground or you wanna find a great boondocking or off-grid spot, you have all that lithium and solar at your disposal to do so. So it's not just for no hookup places or boondocking, it's also more peace of mind and the fact that they engineer these systems to work as a single unit and work well. Well it just works. 

It just works. And by the way, when we teach our classes on boondocking, one of the things that we tell people is, if you aren't sure you're ready for not being plugged in, go to a park that has power. Test the power, obviously <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>. And then just don't use the power until you find that you have to. And if you find that you can stay in a place you know the whole time without having to plug in because you're doing great on your solar, then you know that that is not gonna be a problem for you if you're in a location that doesn't have backup power. 

Yep. That is just another reason we love the masterful power system that we have from ABC Upfitters, 

Our friends, Alicia and Scott are very good boonedockers. And they are gonna talk a little bit about that and a bunch of other things. And we had such a great time talking to them that we kind of couldn't stop. So <laugh>, 

Yeah, this is a long episode. That's, it's 

A long episode, but I think it's worth it and we're gonna get some great information from Alicia and Scott from the root of it all. We are super lucky that we got to catch up with Alicia and Scott from the root of it all camping and we're 

Actually and camp with them and everything 

Camping with them. We are sitting at our picnic table in Fontin, blue State Park in Mandeville, Louisiana. So if you hear campground noises, that's the reason why we've taken this rare opportunity to sit at camp and be outside and talk to our friends. 

I wish that there would be an impromptu jazz band. 

Well, you never know. There was 

One earlier right over there. 

No kidding. One of the campers that I'm looking at right now has musicians that practice outside daily and they go to all of the nursing homes in the area and they were actually jamming the other day. Oh that was fantastic. Oh, that would be awesome. Maybe we'll get lucky. They 

Were mic up and we're doing a live stream, so. Wow. Wow. 

That's awesome. You wished for it. You get it right here in the campground 

And me without my washboard. 

<laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>. 

So as long as the weather holds and it doesn't actually start to rain, which it looks like will be outside, if you suddenly think that everything sounds different, it's cuz we stopped and ran in this inside because it started to rain <laugh>. Yeah. Save the electronics. But maybe you won't. So Scott and Alicia, thank you both so much for hanging out with us and for being our tour guides in Louisiana. Yeah, absolutely. It's been super helpful 

And great. Great. It's been so amazing that our paths have crossed here. Yes. And we're actually able to give you insider input because this is our home state. Right, 

Exactly. 

Share a little bit of our old stomping grounds. <laugh>. Yeah. 

And it's been great. Good having that information from you so we know what to do and what not to bother doing or, but the other night we were driving around going to dinner and we were talking and you guys told us some fascinating information that we just said. Everybody needs to hear this. Yeah. 

<laugh>. So <laugh>, we're gonna talk a little bit about the science and technology passport and maybe some dark sky information and whatever else comes up while we're chatting. Right. So 

Sounds like a good chat to have. It is <laugh>, 

But tell us about that passport that you learned you already had. 

Yeah, so this is the A S T C. It's a science and technology passport that you can get. It's a membership to museums and we're just wrapping up our first year of full-time travel. And it took us about 10 months before we came across this program. There's museums in all 50 states and we happened to find out more about this membership at the Lola Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona. 

So do you know what a STC stands for? 

It's the Association of Science and Technology Centers.

And little did we know, we already had the membership <laugh>, so we're twice over members because we bought into the membership at the Lowell Observatory. Scott is a pilot, so he's also a member of, 

I'm a member of the Experimental Aviation Association and I just happened to be going cleaning up my wallet, getting rid of all the extra stuff that just builds up over time. We 

Were actually making room for our new as TC membership cards, <laugh> 

And I pulled out my EEAA membership card and looked at the back and I saw the A S T C logo and I went, wait a minute, <laugh>. And then I remember, oh, the EEAA has an aviation museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin at their home base. And so they're part of the, uh, passport program already. 

So that Oshkosh one is an A T A S C. 

It's an, they're an ASTC member. Member. Okay. So they're part of the passport program. So I already had membership with that one and so, okay. I'll just changed that one to a family plan and we'll keep that one going in 

The future. When we got to the Low Observatory, which is such an amazing experience, I mean the LO Observatory holds the Astro graph that discovered Pluto. Oh, they both also got, yeah, 

They both forgot <laugh> 

<laugh>. But wait, there's exciting. 

And besides Disney's dog, <laugh> 

<laugh>, they've also got the Clerk Telescope, which is the one that was used to map the moon for the lunar landings. Oh 

Wow. 

Wow. Back in the sixties. Okay. 

And these are in Flagstaff? This, 

This is Observatory. Okay. That really started a conversation of, oh my gosh, how many times do we want to come to this amazing place? And the answer for Scott and I was as many times as we can when we're in the area and then we started doing the math and we're like, well as long as we're here for a month, we need to, cuz we were wintering there 

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And all it takes is going to the museum twice and the membership is paid for your, and your membership is paid for it. Right. 

Right. So we were like, let's do that, let's do the membership. And right when we said let's do the membership, uh, the Lull Observatory said, well actually the membership gets you into all of these. Amazing. It was like opening a door and seeing all of the amazing sites that you could see. It was like, so you thought were on the other side, <laugh> 

We were thought we were getting access just to that To the museum. Yeah. Yeah. Not to, 

And just to be clear, you do not have to be a pilot or even have been, been launched in a catapult to be a member or have interest in this? No, 

No. Not at all. Cause we're not boxes that we had to check 

<laugh>, the, um, anybody can sign up before. Like for example, I'm a member of the eeaa. Anybody can sign up to be a member of the eeaa, a pilot non-pilot, somebody who just has a vague passing interest in aviation. 

That dude who launched with the launcher and all the helium 

That he's 

A member that was a very experimental 

Aircraft. <laugh>. He's gotta be a member. <laugh>. 

Oh man. Will you listened to a podcast or something? No, 

It was an interview with him. It was an interview with him. He actually had it kind of well figured out. It just, he 

Had the air rifle to pop. 

Think he dropped the rifle or something. Oops. <laugh>. And that's what, oh no. I don't know. So he survived. So 

You lived Kill Wouldn't Matter airport, I'm sure. Um, the airport that he flew over wasn't too impress. It was 

Lax. So yeah, they, they were, yeah. 

It's not like they're 

Busy or anything. No, not like 

Of experience. Fine. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

So have you found any other museums that are, have as much exciting night sky stuff as the Lowell has? Well, I mean I'm sure everyone has its own 

Fabulous stuff. Let me just say that the Lowell one is particularly special because Flagstaff, Arizona is the first international dark sky city. Okay. And what dark sky means is that they have it set up to where you have a clearer picture of the night sky. So there's not as much light pollution in the 

Evening. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, for example, all of the lights, the street lights that you would normally see in a city that have just these giant globes of light coming off of them, they're number one, a very amber color. So that's easier on your eyes. They don't hurt your night vision as much. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And number two, all the light is focused down 

As it should be 

So that it's not flying everywhere. And it makes it so much easier to see whenever you first get there. You're like, this is so dark. And then your eyes get used to it and you realize this is all I need. 

So imagine being in a city and looking up and seeing the milky way above you. Yeah. And that's what Flagstaff, Arizona is. It's the city where you can do that. 

We walked out of a big box store and literally 15 feet outta the store, there was a family who had a tiny little toddler who was going, oh, look at that. Pointing up and naming the planets and constellations 

In the sky. 

Wow. It's 

Just a whole, because it's a kid that actually, it's like a country kid understanding that the animals at the fair are animals and not just Not decoration. Not decoration. 

It's in their everyday day repertoire. Right. They can look up and see the stars every single night, you know, when the clouds aren't covering them. Sure. 

Minor details. <laugh>. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. All 

Those we flag. Seth hasn't figured out a way to change that. 

No, no. That's a whole different, but to answer your question, there have been already museums that we've come across after the low observatory to go to, uh, we were in Alamo 

Alamogordo. 

Thank you. My brain 

Los Alamos. Los Alamo is the nuclear one. <laugh>. 

Okay. Okay. So actually there is is a connection with that because one of the other museums is the nuclear museum in Albuquerque. 

It's the Los New Mexico Alamos National, well, I'm sorry, the Bradberry Science Museum is the one in Los Alamos. There is the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History in Albuquerque. And we went to that one before we knew about the passport program. Oh. They asked us if we wanted to be sign up to be members and they didn't say anything about the passport <laugh>. No. 

We would've 

Been Oh yes, 

Yes. 

You're like, no, I'm only in Albuquerque for a day. I'm only gonna be here once. And 

It didn't make any sense to us, which is kind of why we're like hoping that more people hear this because we had no idea. What do you wanna be a member of Astc? Well what's that? Yeah. Like I don't know what that means. Yeah. 

And and what do I 

Get? Right. And you get access to all of these amazing science museums. Pretty much. If you say nasa, it's on this list. 

Okay. So we went to, after Flagstaff, we went down to Alamogordo, the White Sands 

Area. Yes, thank you. I was crisscrossing <laugh>. There's so many museums. Yes. 

And there was the New Mexico Museum of Space History. Oh, huh. Oh, now the Air Force base that's right there. Um, I'm gonna butcher the name on that one. Wait, 

Hang on. We have Google <laugh>. 

My Google is strong. 

I think it's Holloman Air Force Base. 

Air Force Base. I think you're right. 

Yeah. The Air Force base there is where they did a lot of the initial testing for the, um, rockets after World War II for the start of the space program. It's one of the birth places of rocketry in the United States. Wow. And so they've got a space history museum there that is frankly put epic. 

It is. Wow. It's so epic. And this is just so wonderful for travelers because as we all know, like we work during the day. Yeah. So, you know, we're traveling full-time and you go to a museum and you just wanna like get, get your money's worth. Right. Sure. Course you want to of course see everything you can possibly see. Well we couldn't get to the museum during the week until like four o'clock in the afternoon. Oh no. It closes at five o'clock. 

Yeah. You've got an 

Hour every day. But we could go every day. And that's the beautiful thing. And that makes a difference. We just went every afternoon and it was the close to our work day and like Yeah. It was wonderful. 

I think the people left this space History museum were laughing at us because they kept seeing us show up at the end of the day, at the 

End of every day I'm like, right, you don't understand how this works. Can't you come earlier? And then we're like, actually not. 

Well then after, after a little bit they start recognizing us and just waving us on You got the membership. 

Come on Ann. That's how you become regular <laugh>. Right. Exactly. 

And that also having that membership and the list of places that participate could be a great educational travel plan. If that's something. Or just if you're interested in space flight or aviation or there 

Is a PDF you can print off 

Of the as 

TCS website. Do you 

See how 

Small that font, that font is very small. 

All 300 and something museums, 

300 and something museums listed on the front and back of a sheet of paper makes it a small sheet writing 

The half by 11 sheet of paper. And it is tiny. You need a magnifying glass to read it. Oh yeah. 

There are a few gotchas though that we had to, uh, pay a little bit of attention to. Not major gotchas. 

Well these are just things that are kind of abnormal for memberships. And we had to start to realize that this membership is set up in such a way that when you're traveling, it's advantageous for you when you're traveling. But one of the, in one of the, I guess restrictions, restrictions for the membership is when you set up your membership for the astc, you need to take into consideration where your home base is. Basically when you set it up at the museum, like we set it up at the Lowell Observatory, it has to be 

90 miles from your home. You have to be, the only places where you can use the passport are whenever you're 90 miles away from away from home, your home address. Oh, interesting, interesting, interesting. 90 miles away from the membership at which you signed up for the passport. 

Okay. Now I believe the reason that they did this is 

To So you don't go every day. 

Exactly. So you're not going every day. 

So you don't, the whole idea is, it was explained to us is that it's, they wanted to keep you from shopping around to different museums to find the cheapest rate and then go to all the museums in your home area. Oh mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Okay. So because the mu different museums have different membership prices, some of 'em are more expensive, some of 'em are less expensive. And really it's not an issue for us because there's I think only one museum that we're excluded from on this 300 something list. Yeah. 

And it's not because you went every day for an hour, right? 

<laugh>? No, 

No. They didn't put a mark on us. Like we gotta watch these guys <laugh>. Right. 

Wait, I'm minute it 

<laugh>, another reason that they believe that they put that 90 mile radius around your primary museum of choice is because they didn't wanna infringe on the memberships of any of the local museums in the area. Oh sure. And they wanted to be friendly because they wanted to be a national org organization but not impede on the local organizations. They very express, which I think is a good nod to being like friendly with the organizations in your area. Yeah. But it's the 90 mile radius. That's kind of the, that's the only, just pay attention to it. Sure. Because once you pick your, your Museum of choice, or if you do have a home base, just know that you gotta go outside that 90 mile radius for the ASTC membership to start working for you. 

So I assume, and I of course I assume, oh yeah. See what that means. I know that you are full-time, so everybody that's full-time of course has a home base. Was it okay for you to have your home base and still be able to access the museums you wanna access? Or did that become a little bit of a clash for 

You? Well, we actually have South Dakota license plates and 

Driver's licenses. Ah, 

Okay. So we did get residency in South Dakota so that our mail could find us with mail forwarding services. Yes. Um, because Louisiana unfortunately would not give us a driver's license and a mail forwarding system. So we had to seek another state that would support our full-time habit <laugh>. 

Yeah. I, yeah. We didn't choose our home base based upon any of these memberships that we didn't even know about this for the first 10 months we were traveling. Yeah. So it just so works out that there's only one museum in that area that would be a restriction for Oh, 

Oh, okay. 

What is it? The Minuteman one? 

Uh, I think it's the minute man one. Yeah. Okay. 

Yeah. I'd have to, which isn't gonna stop us from going there. No. I mean sure. 

Yeah. It means we have to pay for one museum instead of 300 museums. 

Correct. Shocks <laugh>. Think man. <laugh>. I 

Think I can work 

With that. I could definitely work with that. 

So the way that you wound up at the Lowell Museum was because of Dark Sky. 

Because we're nerds. Because you're nerds. We're nerds. We're nerds. <laugh>. We found the Low Observatory because we're full on nerds. Do we 

Love, why do you think we like you guys 

So much? <laugh>? Well, we're nerds on many levels like we do. We're space nerds, we're gaming nerds, we're food nerds, we're, we're nerds on many levels. But the Dark Sky situation has been like, this has been our first full-time year of travel. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like I was, you know, sharing with you guys and 

Finding Dark Sky places has been some of the most fun we've had. 

Hmm. Okay. So we've gone to a lot of National parks after Dark, which in the 1950s that was a whole like theme. They have all of these like classic postcards, like 

Half the park is after Dark <laugh>. 

Really? That's amazing. That's so cool. And so our first after Dark Experience I think was at Devil's Tower, which happens to be the first 

Oh, 

National Monument. Yep. We went out there late, late one night and we're standing next to only one other person who's doing some astrophotography. And uh, it was amazing. So you get to see the monument without people like all over it. And just like the Milky Way of coming over the top of it with some comments, it was like an added bonus. 

So that's in, not all, but many of the national parks, 

Most of the national parks will let you go in. Now you do need to check with each one of the national parks. Some of them have darker sky locations than other ones. Mm-hmm. 

<affirmative>, the Badlands is amazing. Mm-hmm. 

<affirmative>. Oh, I 

Bet. So just to list some of the, the parks after Dark that we've done, the Badlands, uh, devil's Tower, uh, 

Crater. 

Crater Lake. Crater Lake was probably one of the best because, you know, we were sitting on the rim seeing the Milky Way and we decided to wait to see Sunrise over as well. Oh yeah. So we went from Milky Way to a beautiful sunrise over Crater Lake with cinnamon buns. Oh. And coffee <laugh>. That was sot the epic spot. 

You didn't get there and decide. You actually knew 

Before you Oh no. And planned that one. 

Oh. 

We, we tend to plan these things. So we're looking at different apps where we're checking for 

Oh, the checking the how dark the sky is. Right. Glaciers another good one. Arches and Canyon Lands was amazing. 

We hiked to Delicate Arch at the Night in the Dark with just our headlamps and Wow. Let me tell you when you see it flooded with tourists during the day. And we got there and we had a Moonlet picnic at Delicate Arch with only the two of us. And then I think there was three, four other people showed up. Yeah. 

During the time we were there there were maybe four other people who won. 

Okay. 

Yeah. So that's just another great way to see the parks, uh, in the dark. 

Yeah, it is. Absolutely. Now take precautions. I mean absolutely. You have to check in with, check in with the Rangers, see what they read, recommend. Sure. Some trails are off limits at night in certain parks, we checked to make sure that Delicate Arch was mm-hmm. <affirmative> a trail that we could be on in the evening 

Cause and the Ranger said, oh, that's a good idea. 

That's a good one. <laugh>. That's a good one. Cuz you don't have to deal with all the tourists that are there. All of a sudden it's a private moment. 

You had mentioned some apps that you're using. Any particular highlights? 

Well, Scott is the app guy and he has so many different star apps. Moon apps, <laugh>. 

Well I'm, I'm a big fan so far of Gaia GPS for navigation and whatnot and finding places. But once I find it with that, then I go online and start looking just Googling and seeing what dark sky areas are near where you're gonna be. And another tool that I use is something called Astro Aspheric, which is a astronomy weather app. Huh. 

And it 

Tells you what type of cloud cover and then what type of seeing. Um, with astronomy there's more than just, okay. Is the sky clear? It's how turbulent is the air. Hmm. Because the more turbulent the 

Air, it's AV looking 

And then you get all the twinkles. 

Yeah. There's a few things between you and that star that's way out there. <laugh> a few. A few. So you have to take those things into consideration Sure. When you're doing the viewing. 

But tho those are the big ones that I go for. It's 

Okay. Other than a light ear, 

You wanna actually, if you want to do more star gazing, uh, you want it to be hopefully no moon at all. We could not make that work while we were, we, we made that work one time when we were at Arches. Right? Yeah. 

Okay. Because the moon set as we got there. Huh. 

And so, but we chose that moment to actually sit with our friends and we, we brought them for their first dark sky experience. They weren't quite ready for the delicate arch hike <laugh>. But we did the, the sit and watch through the Windows area at Arches, which is absolutely beautiful. Wow. And it doesn't require as much like exertion to get to those points. 

Oh. You just drive to the parking lot and then walk far enough away on the trail so that you're not being blinded by headlights. And 

There you go. I'd say less exertion is a key on our list of 

Location. <laugh>. Well that that is one You should definitely, 

That's a really, 

It's an easy because I'm not, 

And it's a gorgeous 

View, I'm not gonna lie. There were a few times coming back from Delicate Arch where it's not so clear where the markers are for the trail. Oh. When it's after dark, which is Yeah. Which is why the app is really significant. Cause you can retrace here <laugh>, right? Yeah. That's 

Why I use steps gps. So 

At Good the 

Time Good Park and that one they have little signposts that are posted every hundred yards or so and they have reflectors on them. But some of those signposts have been knocked down. 

Ah. 

GPS app for the win <laugh>. 

So a couple of things to consider when you're going out at night is, well one Scott and I go out together. So we, we have a group with us. Right, right. You do have to consider wildlife that comes out 

At night. Yeah. Because some of that, some of those guys like to be out in the dark. Oh absolutely. 

You wanna check with the national park to make sure what you can bring for defense. But usually they're fully acceptant of you bringing in Bears spray, 

Which we did have on our hikes just in case we never have to use it. But you wanna have it just in case. Sure. 

You'd much rather have it not need it then the other way. 

Yes. <laugh>. Yeah. Because you know who's faster <laugh> 

And one of them, one of them. 

Oh there. But there's always, you know, when you go hiking and you think there are bear, you bring your slow friends. 

<laugh> 

Aww, aww. <laugh> somebody. Because you see the national parks. 

Yeah. The National Parks was like, don't do that. 

Come my god. 

No kidding. Why do you think I never go? 

Actually it's better with a bear not to run cuz then you promote the chase instincts and the animal, it's better to group together and look like you're bigger in a mass than to look like one throw your poor friend down and then run. Because I don't know, doesn't sound like it's gonna work out so well for either of you. No. Might actually work out better for the we're filled. 

<laugh>. 

<laugh> 

The bear got us fills. Right. Tony Pun 

And I didn't make it. 

We love our puns. Our too puns are fantastic. Mm-hmm. 

<affirmative>. That's awesome. Nice. Easy, slow, uh, softball and you nailed it. Yeah. Okay. So I was gonna say that there. 

Oh yeah, sorry. 

Uh, there's a couple other things you wanna keep in mind whenever you, if you want to go out and do this. Number one, it's dark. Bring a light <laugh>, you're gonna 

Need it. Yeah. And enough batteries to run that light for how long you're out there. 

Exactly. 

Plus some. Yeah, 

Yeah, yeah. Because, uh, we, we have run flashlights out before because we thought the batteries were fully charged and 

Oh, I think that's, or 

Because you wound up out longer than you thought you'd be. 

Right. Yeah, it's true. Well, I mean, you treat it like, I think anybody who goes into a, a cave, like those scientists say bring, we learned in Carlsbad Caverns bring three sources of light with you. I would treat it the exact same way if you're going out after dark. Yeah. 

She's got one. I've got one, we've got a spare. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. The other thing is it gets cold in those parks even in the middle of summer. 

So bring layers. 

Yep. Bring 

Layers in your pack. Food, water, everything that you would bring on a normal day hike plus the bear spray. <laugh>, 

<laugh> plus 

Plus plus an animal deterrent and then Right. Plus actually friends. Because if you go out there and you're, it's so qu you can be quiet with the people that you're with. But one of the best deterrents is just having a conversation with someone because the animals don't wanna engage with you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if they can hear you're coming and you don't surprise them, 

That's, they just go away. 

They just, yeah. If they hear way, if they hear you talking to somebody and hear a conversation going about the animals typically go, Nope. So if 

You're alone, speak English. If you're alone, feel free to just have those conversations with all the voices in your head. I have 

Sun to 

Myself, have them out loud 

While I've been on hikes alone. Just do a little song to yourself or I was actually, I'm an artist. So I was at Amont School of Arts and Craft when there happened to be a mama bear and two baby bears. Uh oh boy. That were on campus. And so you have to, I would go from point A to point B on campus not knowing if I would encounter the wildlife. Yeah. They said sing to yourself, shuffle, skip, 

Kick rocks noise, 

Do whatever it takes. Have 

A bear bell. Bear bells exist for a reason. Yeah. Because it's just a little, I mean, and they're lovely sounding and they prevent you from being attacked by wildlife. So interesting. Double bonus. 

Would you probably also be well advised to let the rangers know, Hey, I'm gonna be out here. 

Absolutely. 

Yeah. And if you're not back, you 

Know, you're not required. If you're not going in a back country area, if you're staying on the trails, you're generally not required to let them know that you're gonna be out there. But talking to a ranger is never a bad idea. Right. 

Sure, yeah. 

Right now, I mean, I will stress that is your responsibility to like, they're not gonna just come in after you. Oh, they didn't come in when they were supposed to come in. They're not gonna come after you immediately. 

Personal responsibility. 

Surely you just <laugh> 

Only do this if you're personally responsible. 

<laugh>. I never, Justin, don't call me. Sure. <laugh>. Thank you. Thank you. Couldn't resist. 

But we couldn't believe like it, it's just been all of these fantastic dark sky experiences as we've been traveling and to have this membership come across our path as a result of us trying to find yet another dark sky experience. Cuz we went to the low observatory, not during the day, but at night 

They're open till 10:00 PM Oh, oh, okay. So that's, that's 

Great. So some of these museums have very late hours. 

I love their reasoning for it when we ask, oh, why are you open so late? Well, it doesn't really do much good. Good to have an observatory open in the middle of the day, does it? Right, 

Right. Not, not that don't have really lovely museum stuff. 

Oh they do. And that's, that's wonderful to see during the day. Right. But they actually have telescopes that open up every night that you can go up to and look through yourself. That's very cool. Oh wow. Because 

That's kind of the point. I'm gonna geek out for a minute. In 2019, the low observatory created in a new building. Okay. This facility helped more people be able to see the like structures. They set up six telescopes. And one of the biggest problems when you're setting up a telescope is calibration. You have to move it in. You have to move it out. You have to calibrate it. Yep. Well they have some amazing telescopes there. And so to help with this dilemma of calibrating the telescopes, they decided that they were just gonna build a building that would slide over the telescopes that they could just open so cool. 

Close every night. So there's a building at the Lowell Observatory on Rails that just gets pulled, like it moves the building. I really wanted to see it so bad. But they can't do it until all people are gone from the park. <laugh>. 

Oh think hungry, hungry hippos. If I could just come up. 

And then they have a garage door that comes down on the other side of it so they can leave those five telescopes, Cal 6 6 6 calibrated every single day and let people come and look through them. So here's the true geek out moment, cuz that was just like the lead up, the true geek out moment was looking through those telescopes that are calibrated so well. I saw a nebula, like, you know, you see pictures of nebula, but I looked through the telescope and saw a nebula through the telescope. 

Wow. With my eyes. Wow. Then I saw the actual rings right on Saturn. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It's so saw that one. I mean you see pictures of these things, but it's never someone's name that you name. Yeah. It's not the same. Yeah. And then they were showing the moon, and I always messed with this one up. Can you, can you help me with this? This terminology 

<laugh> the moon. You could see the moon in such clear detail that you could easily, easily see the terminus line of where the sunlight ended on the horizon. Horizon of the moon. That's so cool. And you could see the terrain on the moon, the various mountains. Oh. And the shadows behind it. At the, at the line. At the line. And it was wow. Absolutely phenomenal. 

He put his phone up to the lens, took a picture picture. Nice. It's the best picture of the moon I've ever seen. And it's just one of those things that you can't put into words how amazing that experience was. Huh. I mean, we became kids again. Yeah. It was, it was so wonderful. We were so giddy. <laugh>. We were giggling. I mean it's such a great place for um, young and old. Yeah. I mean they came through. 

Yeah. I mean it's educational for all of us. Yeah. Kids of all ages. 

Yeah. 

That's the beauty of this RV lifestyle, the different aspects that can appeal to different interests. And sometimes you find something you didn't even know you were like really interested in, then you're like, wow, 

That's cool. 

Right. There's still stuff that amaze it. We didn't know about that. Like there's still things to be discovered. Things that are not being talked about out there. And you know, our goal is just to hopefully pay it forward me. Yeah, yeah. Share the information and you know, maybe it's, there's other people who are fixing a full-time and it's like, okay, well now I have this in my knowledge base and I can go do these things. And 

If you want a full-time and you don't know what you're gonna do out there, come up with I wanna see all the dark sky towns, or I wanna see all the space museums, or I wanna see all the caves and caverns <laugh>. 

I want to go to all the 

Railroad museums. All the railroad museums. 

Oh, oh, there's some good ones. Oh yeah. 

No, but this membership is great. You can get a single membership, uh, couples membership or a family membership and Okay. Currently the family membership is just a hundred dollars a year. I'm sure that may change in the future, but as of well like you Yeah. 2023, that's 

What it was. Pays for itself in two visits 

Probably. Yeah. I mean you have few kids or whatever 

And Oh that gets so expensive and 

Yeah. 

And I mean, how fascinating for them and for the parents. Yeah, 

Yeah, yeah. And this may be something that they only use a few times a year, but it's like the National Park pass, if you use it wet three times, it pays for itself. It pay for itself itself. Another one of those memberships that just pays for itself, use it twice. 

You're spending money with an organization that's doing some great work. So yes, I'm not, I'm not ever gonna, and 

We're not affiliated with them. We're just big advocates of, but it's a great cool places. Yeah. 

It's a great tip to pay forward. 

Yeah. So you uh, you kind of told us like how to be prepared, what to take with you, your, your friends and your food and your water and your warmth and your lights and your, but you told me the other day, Alicia, the way to actually get ready for it. Like during the day load up on determination and coffee. Oh yeah. 

<laugh>, 

You have to prepare it. Not everybody's a morning person or a middle of the night person. So you have to know that it's it's commitment. Yeah. Commitment in coffee, 

Hey, a mid-afternoon and 

Whatever gets you to it because I guarantee you you'll never forget that moment. Right. When you look up at Delicate Arch and it's just you and you know, your loved one or friend or just, and you're there and you don't have to share that moment with 500 other people trying to get a selfie. 

Yeah. 

Right. No. One of my preferred methods is that mid-afternoon napping a hammock. Mm. 

That's a good, yeah. Spare yourself the day before 

We listened to a podcast about nap napping. Yeah. And didn't sleep through it. And one of the things they talked about was the coffee. They call it the coffee nap. You drink a coffee and then go 

And take a 20 minute nap. Take 

A 20 minute nap and then you're like, wow, I'm refreshed. Huh. 

Wait for the caffeine to kick it out. Yeah. Uhhuh <affirmative>. That'll do 

It. That's a good gear up. Uhhuh <affirmative>. So we have a tiny YouTube channel, <laugh> <laugh> called the root of it all like 

R O U T e 

Route 66. Yeah. Or route of it all for 

<laugh>. Oh right. 

He then's out there. Yeah. We have a lot of these videos that are gonna be coming out where we shot a lot of video at night on these hikes or talk about this a little bit in detail because we know not everybody can get to these Sure, sure. Moments. Uh, so we like to share as much as we 

Can and so we will share those links in our show notes and thank you. This may or may not come as a surprise to you, but we have two more questions. What is, and this might have to be two separate stories, your best camping memory, 

<laugh>. 

Oh wow. My favorite camping memory. 

He has a lot. He's an Eagle Scout. So, 

Well actually I was going all the way back to scouting days and hiking in Philmont, spending two weeks hiking all over Philmont and the back country. Okay. For those of you who don't know, Philmont is in northeast New Mexico. It's a boy scout ranch out out there. Oh. And it is absolutely epic country to go backpacking in with your, um, either boy scout troop or charitable organization. They're allowed tie, can film out vow 

As well. Okay. For people who didn't know who Phil, what Philmont was, which was me before I married Scott. It's kind of the Valhalla, it's where all the boy scouts want to go camp. Ah. It's the ultimate camping destination if you're a boy scout. Okay. So he had way more tent camping experiences <laugh> than I did. 

I'll throw out the caveat that it at least was that whenever I was in Boy Scouts Sure. Moons ago, <laugh>, 

I think one of my favorite tent camping experiences. I brought my tent when I, back when I was in college, uh, I was going on, I was on the honors board and we were going on a retreat together. And so we went to one of the state parks in Louisiana and the house was packed with all of the board members. And so everybody was sleeping on a sofa or a couch or whatnot. And I brought my tent and I, I was the only one who set it up outside <laugh> because they had this huge cabin, but everybody was like arm over elbow cramped in there. 

And I had this beautiful porch where I was camping outside and it was such, it was such a peaceful, quiet zone on the cusp of chaos. Yes. That I, I mean I have a lot of great wilderness camping stories, but I just love the fact that my tent gave me the solace that I needed from <laugh>. Yes. The chaos of that weekend. That was my little north phased Roadrunner tent and I still have that thing <laugh>. 

Excellent. 

That's cool. And I loved 

It when you go to set it up, Scott's like, oh, I guess she's had enough of me for a while. 

<laugh> <laugh>. 

We haven't had that experience yet. Or is that why I can't find my tent right now? What? 

I know it's 

In storage. I know what you're talking about. Okay. So do you wanna share your worst camping? 

I know what 

This one is, I know which one you're gonna choose. I 

Know what I'm gonna say. Oh, 

I don't even know. 

But it was the second camping trip she and I went on together. 

Okay. 

Are you gonna tell my story or do you wanna No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you, you know, was exactly the one that I'm gonna tell <laugh> when we were first starting to date, the first camping trip was great. We were in the Smoky Mountains, the second one not so great. It had location, the location was amazing. Location was beautiful. It was at Pet Jean, uh, state Park in right inside of Arkansas. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It was really beautiful, wonderful. Little chilly. But that night we didn't know that they were gonna be performing helicopter rescue drills Oh dear. 

At the camp gown. So when I tell you everything looked like the beginning of ET where the lights are like coming through the tree, crossing each other and, and like Yeah. It was ca it was so chaotic. It was oh my god, not peaceful. 

I feel right at the fall freeze in my head 

<laugh>. And by little 

I heard it that it was Yeah. I, firsthand 

We were expecting temperatures that were gonna be right around freezing ballpark. Mm-hmm. Instead what we got, were down to with the single digits with the wind blowing at about 25 to 30. Oh oh God. 

When you tried to pour your orange juice out in the morning and it's a slushy <laugh>. Oh boy. There are problems when it's with the weather and camping 

When, when it's too cold to light the propane stove. 

Oh geez. 

Yeah. 

There were lots of angry eyes at Scott that morning <laugh>. They're like, I'm never going camping. He's like, I want you to come to petty jean with me. It's this wonderful place. <laugh> it, it really is a beautiful place. It's 

Just the hike, the waterfall. Hike The fall that morning was 

Beautiful. It was, it was, it kind of made up for the horrific sleep that happened. 

Oh 

My gosh. Because it was all night. The helicopters did not stop and we had chosen a spot Right on the, it's so romantic. It's on the waterfront. No, of course it was like 

S st. Pro tip. If you're going to pettyjohn call and see if they're doing rescue missions that night before you make your reservation. 

I 

Was Well you would think that would be something that the Ranger would mention by the way, 

I was wondering why the park wasn't that crowded. I just figured it was because of the weather. Yeah. 

Which it could have been. And then maybe they used that. This is the perfect time for us to do drills. Yeah. There's 

Not that many people 

Here. If they're here, they're already a little bit crazy. Right. <laugh>, this'll just push them over the edge. Right. Yeah. So that was probably my worst night's sleep. Like one of my top five worst night's sleeps <laugh> definitely the worst camping experience for me. 

No, mine's a little different. Um, just a wee bit different. I, I'd have to say that the absolute worst that I've ever had it I, that was bad. But she was describing, but it was an adventure 

<laugh>. Yeah. Okay. It's 

True. When we were boondocking in the, just north of the Badlands Oh, on the rim of, there's a boondocking area that's in the national Grasslands area. 

It's just outside of the entrance from 

Pinnacles in the Badlands. Yeah. It's just north of the Pinnacles entrance station in the Badlands. 

Okay. Where you would enter from Wall South Dakota. 

Okay. And it's an amazing boondocking spot. You've seen quite a few YouTubers who've been out there and done that. There's lots of videos, there's lots of stories about it. Absolutely wonderful. What a lot of people don't mention is that it can get a wee bit windy as in there's 60 plus mile an hour winds on a very regular basis. Oh geez. I don't know if you know how uh, RV slides are typically constructed and how their standard through frame slide is put together. Um, but it turns out the mechanisms for moving the slide and what holds the slide out are all at the bottom right. 

The top of the slide is just held out by gravity from the bottom. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well if you get a wind that's strong enough, it can counteract that gravity. 

Oh dear. Oh, 

And we had the wind get high enough where it started pushing the slide back in. Oh 

My gosh. Wow. And we're push pushing our kitchen slide in. And just to give some framework, we're in a 34 foot 

Fifth wheel. 

Fifth wheel. Yeah. With a pretty substantial kitchen slide. And that thing was rocking and coming back in with a vengeance. Oh my gosh. At the point where all you do is you just bring in hug your dog bring, which I did to comfort her 

And Oh. To add an extra little bit of salt in the wound there, um, we were boondocking so we had all the windows open because it was a little bit of a warm day. Well with all that wind comes all kinds of dust. Yeah. It 

And it came out of nowhere. We weren't prepared for it. Oh we 

Were because it had been, you know, 10 to 15 mile an hour winds. Sure. Yeah. And we had all the windows open. We're still cleaning dust out of the rv. This was last summer. We're still cleaning dust. 

<laugh>. The Badlands is always with us. <laugh>. Yeah. 

And we had our friends in there with us. We had a nice charcuterie board that was going, oh man, all this wind. Oh, 

We were so focused on water with the Badlands. Cuz we'd heard so many times like, be careful if you go up on this area, you don't want to go when it's just rained and you don't wanna be up there when it's raining. So just rain. Rain. And we had even, we knew a little bit about the wind, so we had positioned the RV in such a way where we thought like, 

The predominant winds were gonna just go front to back on, not 

They're in. The things about the bad lands is that the winds just changes directions wherever they want so rapidly that you can't really completely account for it. You just kind of have to brace yourself. Wow. Yeah. 

That was an adventure. 

It's 

Intense. Wouldn't stop us though. We'd we'd go back. Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah, good. Just we'd be a little bit more wary about the winds <laugh>. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. I'm always glad that, thank goodness so far the worst stories have always been something that's not a good memory, but a memory that's worth telling. Yeah. 

Right. 

<laugh>, you can laugh a little now that you've survived it. 

<laugh> actually that that that same location is the one place so far that we've seen somebody's, um, awning go flu. Oh, 

I've, yes. I've seen that. Seen we've, we've seen that or I've seen that 

On the coast a lot. We grew up on the coast, you know, when we were in California. 

Yeah. Well it's just, and Scott, thank you so much for these great tips 

And great stories. Yeah. 

Great stories. It's a pleasure. And thanks for being such great hosts while we're here visiting New Orleans. Yes. And all of that, it's been what a great city and great time and it's awesome to hang with you guys. 

Yeah. Oh, I'm, I'm not gonna believe it until you say great. At least three more times. <laugh>. 

Great. 

Great. Well I don't think I would be a great host if I didn't invite you back to our campsite after this to have a seafood gumbo. Oh 

Man. 

Okay. Bye. Everybody with 

Yes 

With craft 

That we caught ourselves at Rockefeller Refuge. 

Oh, that's 

Awesome. Thanks for that. All right. Thank you for being our tour guides and for hanging out with us and for being our friends. 

Yep. We love it. Thank you guys. You, I'm so glad our paths crossed again 

As we drive along, we listen to podcasts, but another thing we listen to is audio and that's a U T I O audio is an app on your phone that uses the internal GPS system. And when you pass by all sorts of things, attractions, historical sites, cities pretty 

Much anywhere where someone, either the owners of the company or lovers of the app like you know, like us Pretty 

Or Kevin Costner, 

Right. Or Kevin Costner or John Lithgow. If someone has found a place that they find interesting and has recorded a little snippet of information about that, anywhere from three to 10 minutes, put the app on Autoplay, which you can do. Or if you just look at the map and say, Hey, there's an audio recording nearby and you can listen to whoever recorded it, tell the story of that location. 

It's a neat app, it is a subscription based app, but we have a discount in our discounts and deals 

Section that discount changes all the time based on what Otto is offering at the time. So if you go to our deals and discounts page and click on the Otto Link, you will find out what the deal currently is. 

Yep. Over in our discounts and deals. And it's, it's really a neat app. You can give it a try and we really enjoy it. 

Yeah, we sure do. 

Well, speaking of things we really enjoyed, Peggy, really enjoyed mammoth caves. 

I really enjoy caves and caverns and I find them fascinating geologically. And so I put on my RV geologist hat again and wrote up some information about Mammoth caves National Park in Kentucky and kind of also talk about caves and caverns and the difference between those, which will come in handy the next time that we visit, which probably will be Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico on our way home <laugh>. But we had a really good time at Mammoth caves and enjoyed the area and enjoyed a park tour and our tour guide was really fabulous. 

Jerry is actually a descendant of some of the original tour guides of Mammoth caves after they were first discovered and first became sort of tourist attractions. So we have a little bit of his story and cave history and of course the biology of the area because I can't leave that one alone <laugh>. So check it out. It will put a link in our notes to that article and we, I highly recommend, well all caves and caverns, but <laugh> mammoth caves in particular right now. 

Yeah. Peggy has the whole story. The 

Whole story. <laugh>, 

One of the questions that towable RV owners have is how much propane do I have? Right. And usually the, the way you find out is sometime in the middle of the night you run out of propane. Yes. It's really cold. Or you're, you have a propane fridge and all of that comes to a grinding halt. We got propane monitors from Lippert that are just like little magnetic, they look like coasters, quite frankly <laugh>. And they go on the bottom of your propane tank and you set them up in the Lippert one control app. 

You can then get alerts on propane levels. So it's easy to monitor your tank levels. These little propane monitors. You put one on each tank that you want to monitor. They come with these little feet that raised the tank just a wee bit so that it doesn't rub, but we plused it and bought these plastic rings that go on the bottom of the tank, which tend not to scratch up the metal plate that the tanks sit on as you tow it down the road. 

Yeah. So that ring is kind of like hard rubber, almost like our wheel chalks. Yeah. And it's like a channel, right. So it just slips onto that kind of existing foot on the propane bottle and that keeps it elevated just enough that it doesn't squash the lipid <laugh> the lipid monitor. But also I think it's going to be very helpful because it keeps that metal on metal from happening. So the metal propane tank isn't sitting on the metal shelf. It's got that rubber gasket in between and that will avoid noise and scratching and rust and yeah, any of those kind of problems. 

Oh that's maybe sparks 

<laugh>. Oh yeah, I hope not. But the propane tank monitors, uh, really work well. In fact, they'll send you alerts to your phone and in my case it also sends alerts to my watch. And lo and behold, we are low in one of our tanks. So I have to go and find some doggone propane today. Hey 

Prop, that would some 

Propane accessories 

From some fun exploration finding propane <laugh>, 

Finding propane. While every week we ask a question of the week on our fun and friendly Stressless camping podcast Facebook 

Group. And last week we asked you what would you like us to talk about 

<laugh>? Do you have questions that are things you'd like us to find or guests you'd like us to find? That sort of thing. 

Right. So thank you for the ideas and we will be working on these. Brian said he'd like to learn about economizing while camping or traveling to destinations without sacrificing the fun factor. So tips and tricks for pinching pennies. Bill would like to talk about or like to have us learn more about repairs and quick fixes that can be done at a campsite without having to call an RV tech, which is a great, both of those were really great comments. 

<laugh>. Yeah. If you own an rv, you're fixing an rv. 

Yeah. Mark wants to know about little known travel destinations. Always looking for a new place. And honestly, that's kind of what we look for. The little known places we don't necessarily go to where the majority of people go. You know, sometimes exceptions like New Orleans 

<laugh>. Yeah, last week we were in New Orleans, 

So I mean sure we do go to those places too, but we do tend to like look for the places that aren't quite as popular or populated. So we will continue to do that and hopefully mark that. We have given you some ideas and we'll continue to do so. We had a request for pop-up campers and so we will look into that. You know, we travel in a travel trailer and we obviously know that there are all sorts of different kind of campers, but what we know the best, of course is travel trailers and that's kind of when we talk about how things work, obviously that's where our minds are going. 

Well, but we started out in a JCO pop-up. 

We sure did. 

So that was our first RV together was a very tired JCO pop-up trailer that we got from my friends. 

We had a great time with it. 

Yeah, we did. Oh man. We absolutely did. So, and I do have some neat pop-up camper stories that I will share. Excellent. So coming right up. 

Excellent. And then Beverly asked us to find out and learn the difference between sealing and caulking. And that was a great request. And coincidentally at fm c a, we went to a seminar about sealing and sealants and we are working to have that speaker on one of our very soon upcoming podcast episodes. 

That's the fact Jack. 

So thank you all for those ideas. Those were really great and we will be working on those topics for you. 

Yes, we will. By the way, our question of the week for this week is, 

What is the longest that you have camped in one place? We have a tendency to sort of move along too quickly. Always. I always think it's gonna be long enough and it never is. <laugh>. I know a lot of parks and things have a two week maximum, but you know, quartzite surely doesn't. So I'm just kind of curious. Do you sit in one place for a long time and what's the longest place you've ever sat in one spot to explore? 

And you can answer that at our Fun and Friendly Stresses Camping podcast Facebook group. 

And by the way, I wanna welcome the new members. I've been getting requests pretty much every day for new members to pop in. And I apologize to the, those of you who had to wait three days before I noticed <laugh> the request. But welcome, I'm glad you're here and I'm glad you waited it out and I hope that you get a lot out of that 

Group. Yes, we do. Do you know we do a once a week newsletter, which is absolutely free, which has links to the stories and videos and podcasts that will help you get the most out of your Stressless camping experience. 

Just visit our website, stressless camping.com, and you can sign up for the newsletter. And if you miss the popup on the very first time, just go to the bottom of every page and sign up and know that we are not going to share your information. We are not going to sell it or share it. We just use that information to send you one email per week. And that is it. 

That's all folks <laugh>. While you're on the Stresses Camping website, you can find the show notes and links for this episode, episode 1 96 on the podcast page Stresses camping.com, which is also coincidentally where you'll find our deals and discounts for the best deals on the things you'll need on your stresses camping adventure. 

Hey, you know, if you know of a great deal or discount for our audience, please let us know and we will work to get that added. 

You betcha. And of course we are in all the social places, but you can start@stresslesscamping.com. Upper right corner is links to all the social places that we are. If you don't wanna miss a future episode of this Stressless Camping podcast, it's free to subscribe on any podcast episode. 

We are saving you a seat around our virtual campfire. Hopefully you don't notice, but you probably do that. Our air conditioner just came on 

<laugh>. It's, we are in the 

South hot and humid here. 

Boy oh 

Boy. As you know, we always ask you to please go into that podcast app that you use and write a review that really, really helps us. And there's another way that you can help us if you don't wanna write a review or you've already done. So, we would really appreciate if you would, just while you're on our website, maybe you found an article that you really liked. Share it. Share it on your Facebook page or share it with your friends or however you want to share it. But please, that really, really helps us get ourselves in front of more eyeballs and earballs. 

And that is the name of the 

Gameball. And of course, uh, another way to help spread the love is to write a review. And we got one from Global Jewel via Apple Podcast who said, makes us feel like we're hanging out with you over happy hour. Thanks for all you share. Yeah, we love hanging out with people 

Over. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you <laugh>. 

Well, that's what we have for you this week. We sincerely appreciate your bringing us into your ears once again, hope you're either out there already enjoying this wonderful place that we all call home or making plans to do so. But whatever the situation, happy, 

Happy camping. 

We hope you learned a lot and had some fun and got some tips for your next Stressless Camping Adventure. We're honored by your reviews on Apple Podcasts, which helps others find us too. Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss out on the adventure. And we look forward to your joining us next week. Until then, happy camping.