What is freedom camping, are the campgrounds really crowded and what are some things to see in New Zealand? We speak with author Lisa Jansen who has spent five years traveling New Zealand in a camper van and written three books including Life Done Differently, The Nomad’s Ultimate Guide to New Zealand and One Size Does Not Fit All.

We finally talk a bit about our new tow vehicle and why this is a gadgetpalooza and then look at a new super reconfigurable travel trailer.

Other places to hear the podcast

Mentioned on this episode

Lisa Jansen - Life Done Differently - https://www.lifedonedifferently.com

More information about Lisa: https://linktr.ee/lifedonedifferently

If you’re confused about solar, battery power or just want to upgrade your RV we have found the solutions from ABC Upfitters are both reliable and exceptional.

We have a podcast episode and video where you can learn more here.

The Curt aluminum tray-style bike rack we mentioned in the episode.

Our trusted partners - RV Discounts and Deals

Automated transcript of StressLess Camping RV podcast episode 228 with Lisa Jansen

Mark Ferrell

Welcome to the weekly podcast, all about turning the great American RV adventure into Stressless camping. Each week we explore tips, tricks, ideas, and destinations, and talk to the happiest campers in the RV world. Pull up a seat at the campfire as we enjoy some Stressless camping.

Peggy Barthel

Welcome to the Campfire.

Tony Barthel

I'm Tony. I'm Peggy. And we're two RV industry veterans who travel part-time

Peggy Barthel

In a small trailer

Tony Barthel

Looking to share big adventures and help you with great tips, tricks, and discounts. And we are planning to put right some miles on our trailer this weekend. Sorry to all of you who had to win our race. I

Peggy Barthel

Know. Really Sorry. We are though. We're taking a weekend trip, which is also sort of unusual for us. Usually when we leave, it's for months at a time. Yeah. We're just gonna go with some friends, Michael and Mickey and hopefully Patrick and Brian. And we're going to meet up with Felicia and Scott. They'll know it by now. Yeah,

Tony Barthel

That's true. We're we're actually surprising them, believe it or not. They

Peggy Barthel

Know we're coming for dinner, they don't know we're coming to camp. Yeah. But by the time they hear this, oh actually if they listen in the morning, oh,

Tony Barthel

Oh, oh.

Peggy Barthel

They will have heard the secret.

Tony Barthel

Oh, they'll know. We will. We may have spilled the beans <laugh>, which is a bummer. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

Anyway, the last time we did a weekend trip was just a few weeks ago. Yeah.

Tony Barthel

We went to Santa Fe.

Peggy Barthel

We did. We went to Santa Fe. We've been so busy since then that, you know, with our interviews and our silly Halloween episode, so we haven't even had a chance to talk about that. But we are super grateful to Girl Camper for working with us on the Camper College. We taught a class in Santa Fe a couple of weeks ago and we had a great time with some great students and really enjoyed ourselves and like this short trip format for ourselves.

Peggy Barthel

We haven't done that in so long, but we just wanted to give a shout out to Girl Camper. And if you are a girl camper and are interested in a camper college, it's, it's a, what we used to call basic training,

Tony Barthel

RV basic training,

Peggy Barthel

RV basic training.

Tony Barthel

We call it a three day version of your one hour walkthrough. So we kind of try to really dig into all the different RV basics. And the good thing is you get to bring your own rv.

Peggy Barthel

Right. So you get to see things, you get to touch the things that we talk about. And if you have any specific questions, we take little field trips to your camper and check them out. And we will do this outside of girl camper as well. Yeah. If you have a group of people that would all like to learn a little more about their RVs, get in touch with us and let us know. And we will work on scheduling a class for you.

Tony Barthel

Yeah, absolutely. We've done a lot of these and people seem to like them, so we will continue to do them.

Peggy Barthel

Indeed.

Tony Barthel

So we had mentioned that we're going camping this weekend. It is November. It's no shave November.

Peggy Barthel

No shave November. So we don't have to take our electric razors <laugh>, which is good 'cause there's no hookups. Oh, actually I think we got in the loop that does have hookups, but it kind of wouldn't matter to us.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. Because we have got our power package on a Rockwood Mini light. And that's something that if you have been interested in a solar or lithium power system for your rv, we have been just thrilled with ours. In fact, ours is sitting outside waiting for us right now. And the sun has been keeping the fridge cold well through solar panels and a battery and all that

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>

Tony Barthel

<laugh>. And it's just been working great, even with the lower sun and kind of wintry conditions. Although it hasn't been that wintry here in New Mexico.

Peggy Barthel

It really hasn't. It's been gorgeous here.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. That's why, you know, I mean, especially if you're in the Southwest solar Sure. Makes a lot of sense. And so if you're solar curious or interested in what can you do, what can you get away with, how can you go camping without potentially needing a generator or just extending your camping or whatever. The folks at ABC Upfitters are really terrific. They use master vault components, which are tested on the waters. In other words, a lot of yachts and boats have used master vault components for quite some time now.

Tony Barthel

So anyway, get your questions answered by giving ABC upfitters a call at (574) 293-9399.

Peggy Barthel

That's 5 7 4 2 9 3 9 3 9 9

Tony Barthel

Or there's a link in the show notes to ABC Upfitters. They're really good people to work with.

Peggy Barthel

Last week we talked to Robert Morales and he had been to Alaska and he had gone like really close to the North Pole, and we thought bur <laugh>

Lisa Jansen

<laugh>,

Tony Barthel

We kind of did. I was watching some of Robert's videos and they're very, very good. And Robert is a very honest, upfront guy. And some of the videos, you could tell he is just having the time of his life and other times it's like, oh gosh, I'm over this cold.

Peggy Barthel

Yeah. I mean, he went in the summertime, so that was good. And you know, who's coming up on summer now is the southern hemisphere. Yeah. Our

Tony Barthel

Winter is there summer,

Peggy Barthel

And so we're gonna now go almost all the way to the South Pole and we're gonna talk to a lady who has been touring New Zealand for several years.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. In fact, she has so much to say. She wrote a book about it. So without any further ado, let's uh, talk to Lisa Janssen

Peggy Barthel

This afternoon or this morning, depending on

Lisa Jansen

<laugh>

Peggy Barthel

Your perspective, we get to talk to Lisa Janssen and she is actually in New Zealand. So last week we talked about Alaska way up on the North Pole, and now we're gonna zip all the way down very close to the South Pole and get a different perspective about traveling in places that we're not accustomed to. Lisa, thank you so much for taking some time with us.

Lisa Jansen

Uh, thank you so much for having me. Really excited to be here and have a chat with you guys and, and I look forward to listening to that Alaska episode as well. That sounds awesome,

Tony Barthel

<laugh>. It's pretty neat. It made me want to go a lot. Yeah. But I've always wanted to go to Yes. Australia and New Zealand. Yeah. And a big part of the appeal, not only is it, so we are talking to you and we're in the afternoon of our day, but you're in the morning of your day, but we are also in the impending doom that is winter here in the us but you are right on the precipice of summer down there.

Lisa Jansen

Yes, we are. So, you know, we do this season's the opposite way around, so yeah. So we're, um, just getting into summer now. It's getting warmer. Cold nights and days are over, so yeah, it's great.

Peggy Barthel

That's our lifetime goal is to come here for our summer and go there for your summer <laugh>. Yeah,

Lisa Jansen

Yeah, yeah. You know, I know a few, um, people who, you know, nomad to travel down here in Avi's and who do that with the uk you know, lots of English people in, in New Zealand. So there is a few people here that, um, spent summers traveling in Europe, and then they come back here and have summer in New Zealand. So it sounds like a great life, doesn't it? Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

Yeah. And

Tony Barthel

The advantage is you almost speak the same language. Hmm.

Lisa Jansen

<laugh>

Peggy Barthel

Kind of, for

Lisa Jansen

The most part. <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Now you have just written a book life done differently, and you are a full-time traveler. How did that come about?

Lisa Jansen

Yeah, so, um, it's coming almost six years now that I've been a nomad and, and traveling around and five of those in my camper. And for the last year I've been a full-time host sitter. So travel around and look after people's homes and pets. But how it all happened was, um, yeah, six years ago, a bit more than six years ago now, I was 33 years old. Um, all my friends were getting married, you know, settling down, having kids, buying houses. And as much as I, you know, thought that was sort of, you're beautiful and, and I loved seeing it and I love all the kids, I kind of just, it didn't feel like the thing for me to do.

Lisa Jansen

I didn't feel drawn to that sort of life and, and lifestyle. And it wasn't sort of a definite, I don't wanna do that. But, you know, I just, I sort of started to ask myself, okay, what else is there? Like, what can you do with your life if you don't wanna follow that very traditional path? And, you know, of course, like what do you do when you feel lost and you're looking for answers is you go travel, right <laugh>. Right

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>.

Lisa Jansen

And in my case, because I am living in beautiful New Zealand and I love New Zealand, it is the best country in the world. So I didn't really wanna go travel overseas, so I decided to buy a camper. And originally the, the plan was to basically just take a summer off, you know? And at that point I had, um, done the typical, you know, finished uni, got a job, worked really hard, did really well, um, worked my way up, but sort of, that was kind of my life. I was just working a lot. Um, and so I decided I'm gonna take a summer off and I'm gonna spend the summer, um, traveling in my camper around New Zealand.

Lisa Jansen

And, and that summer kind of just turned into almost five years on the road because I loved it so much and I kept going and I realized I can work from anywhere. So, you know, why stay put and pay, you know, rent or mortgage if, um, you can just Yeah. Cruise around the country. So yeah, that kind of how it, how it all happened.

Tony Barthel

How long have you lived in New Zealand?

Lisa Jansen

Um, I've been in New Zealand for 17 years. So I came here when I was, um, 22, still at university. It was, um, supposed to be just a year as a student exchange, you know, as you do these days, lots of students. And I just fell in love with New Zealand and yeah. Ended up staying here and now it's 17 years later, <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Nice. Nice. Yeah, it's a, from what I understand, it's a beautiful place. Mm-Hmm. And I think a lot of Americans may not realize it is a very camper friendly place.

Lisa Jansen

It is. It's, it's big here. Um, lots of people have, you know, campers, caravans, motor homes, tents as well, you know, especially in, in summer. Um, all the campgrounds are busy with tents. So the traditional kiwi holiday is, you know, go with a family and you attend or your, your little, you know, camper. Um, so yeah, it's big lifestyle down here. From

Tony Barthel

My understanding, you can just kind of camp on the side of the road and no one looks twice,

Lisa Jansen

Unfortunately. That's not true. So that's a bit of a myth. And I think that might've been true 15, 20 years ago. Uhhuh, <affirmative>, it's not quite that easy anymore. So there we call it freedom camping down here when you know, you can just sort of park up somewhere for free and you still can do it. You know, we still have lots of places where it is allowed, but it is increasingly restricted. I think it's just the typical, you know, what happens with so many things. Like it's all good as, as long as, you know, as a few hundred people doing it, but once it's thousands and then tens of thousands, it becomes a problem.

Lisa Jansen

Sure. And so it's been regulated a lot more. So yes, I would say that, you know, anyone coming to New Zealand, one of my advice would be familiarize yourself with the Freedom Camping laws. Um, it is a bit more complicated than it's sometimes made out to be where, or you can just park anywhere. It's not quite that simple.

Tony Barthel

Good to know. That's to know to and, and to translate since as I said, you speak almost the same language. <laugh>, <laugh> freedom, camping is boondocking in. Yeah, right. Well, we call boondocking. Yeah. Yeah. <laugh>

Lisa Jansen

Pretty much. But we have, you know, we, we do have sort of designated freedom camping areas and, you know, some, some towns like, especially smaller towns where, you know, you actually have a reserve or a park or a car park where, you know, it's officially like here, you're allowed to park for free. Um, as long as you have a, um, self-contained certified self-contained vehicle. So you must have all your own facilities and basically be able to stay there leaving nothing but tire marks and footprints behind. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So we have those. So that's a thing down here and, and we call it Yeah.

Lisa Jansen

Freedom camping sites.

Tony Barthel

So have the campgrounds down there become more crowded and more difficult to reserve? Or is it still pretty, can you still do a lot of last minute, you know, just show up type of thing?

Lisa Jansen

Yeah, so I would say that we, um, we have relatively short but intense busy seasons, so that week after Christmas, so, because summer, like Christmas is and summer for us pretty much, yeah. Anyone who can takes, you know, at least sort of two, three weeks off over Christmas and New Year's and everyone heads to like the beach and the campgrounds and the lakes and stuff. Right. <laugh>. So, um, that week from, you know, just, just around Christmas till like the second week in January, you know, campgrounds get really busy. So if you're traveling in New Zealand around that time, I would recommend to book.

Lisa Jansen

And then we have a few kinda long weekends and summer, you know, in, in early February. There's a few public holidays that kind of make it, you know, long weekends. And again, that's when campgrounds tend to get really busy the rest of the time.

Lisa Jansen

In most places you can, you know, either just rock up or maybe call, you know, the day before, once you sort of have a, a bit of a, a better plan. The exception would be really the very popular spots. You know, like Queenstown is one of the most popular tourist destinations. Um, so that's probably where I would recommend to book or those sort of places where you really only have like one campground, you know, serving a relatively large area. But yeah, otherwise a lot of the time you can, you know, I've traveled, like I said, almost five years and I've very rarely booked more than a day or two ahead.

Lisa Jansen

That's

Tony Barthel

Good. So as someone like let's say us or any of our listeners who might, Hey, I wanna go to New Zealand and I'm going to rent a caravan, or hire a caravan or rent an rv, depending on who's listening <laugh>, how long is not long enough. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Lisa Jansen

Not really. <laugh> such a good question. So I really think it comes down a lot to sort of your personal travel style and um, you know, I remember one time I was, um, on the south island. So New Zealand's got, you know, the north island and the south island. And so the two big islands, most people travel and then there's a bunch of so smaller ones, but they're the main ones. And, and I was on the south island and I had traveled through an area called the Catlins, and I spent like four weeks just traveling through, you know, it's along the coast, maybe a total of maybe 200 kilometers, you know, I don't know how much that is in Miles, sorry, maybe something like, I don't know, 120 miles or something like that.

Lisa Jansen

And then I met a couple, you know, who in that same time had like come all the way from the north island, covered the entire east coast of the South island, <laugh>, <laugh>, you know, and, and caught up with me.

Lisa Jansen

So I think it's really, you know, no matter how much time you have, you'll never feel enough for a place like New Zealand. Right. What I would say, like anyone who doesn't have, you know, more than maybe a couple of weeks, I would just get very selective about, you know, where you go and, and what you see. And not trying to cover too much distance. I mean, we're very lucky in New Zealand that so much is so close together, you know, especially if you're used to the US where, you know, sometimes you have to drive for hours and hours just to, you know, see, just like anything we see a lot of the time things have relatively close together.

Lisa Jansen

But yeah, I would, you know, I think if someone would say to me, oh, we're coming for two weeks, um, then I would say, oh, I probably, you know, just pick one of the islands and maybe even just like a, you know, specific destinations within an island, otherwise you just spend your whole day driving. Right. And even though it's beautiful landscape to drive through, it's just not, yeah. I don't wanna have a bit of time to stop and look around. Right.

Peggy Barthel

So when I just looked briefly like it seems New Zealand is scale wise kind of the size of California ish. Right? So think about, you know, how long we could spend in California. There's so many beautiful places like in New Zealand Yeah. That you, like you said, you don't wanna just rush through and say, oh, I was there for three days and I saw everything <laugh>. Exactly.

Tony Barthel

Exactly. Yeah. But I mean, California having come from there, people are like, oh, I'm gonna see the whole state in two weeks. And it's like, oh no, you're not. Right. That's

Peggy Barthel

What I mean. Yeah.

Tony Barthel

It's, I can't see it all. I don't think people realize how big California is

Peggy Barthel

And how many things there are. Like in New Zealand, like everywhere you go, you're gonna have different opportunities to find different kinds of things and just like, yeah, like California, it's not just a place you wanna spend a day you wanna get. Yeah,

Lisa Jansen

Absolutely. I mean, dig

Peggy Barthel

In there.

Lisa Jansen

Look, I've been, you know, traveling around New Zealand for six years now, and there's still places I haven't been to. They're, you know, the small ones like off the beaten track down the road, but, you know, still, so you, you know, I could keep going. Yeah. And I'd still have new places to discover. Right.

Tony Barthel

And if you're gonna be the, the tourist who flies in, hires a caravan and then goes, are there any like, oh my gosh, you can't miss places like that.

Lisa Jansen

Gosh, so many. So, so many. <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

<laugh>.

Lisa Jansen

I think a lot of it comes down to what someone really is interested in. Um, right. So for example, if you are really interested in history and culture, then you know, New Zealand has a really strong Maori cultures of the Murray are the original people of New Zealand. And, and if that's something, you know, you're really interested in, then I reckon like the North island and, and around Rota, you know, bay of Plenty, there's like a lot of, you know, a lot of focus on that and a lot of opportunities to engage with that and learn with that. So if that's sort of, you know, your, your area of interest, then that would be a must see for me, for someone who's, you know, really into the mountains and like loves hiking, um, I'd say like the south island, the, the sort of central Otago area around Queenstown, aka uh, maybe up the West Coast, you know, probably has sort of the best, um, hiking.

Lisa Jansen

And it's just super beautiful with, you know, the Alps, like the mountains and, and the lakes and the glaciers and, and all that stuff. So like breathtaking scenery and people who love the ocean, you know, we've got Abel Tasman at the top of the south island is a, one of our regional parks. Um, just like the, the area's called Golden Bay because the beach is the sand color is so golden. So that's, you know, got, got that name from there. Nice. And so it's just really beautiful, um, awesome sort of coastal area.

Lisa Jansen

Um, obviously, you know, new Zealand's like a, a country of island, so we've got heaps of coastal area. Yeah. So yeah, like honestly, so, so many places I could, could recommend, um, which is why you need a lot of time to, you know, see everything. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

Yeah.

Tony Barthel

Well, I mean if you're going, you might as well make a, a thing of it and spend some time. Yeah. And are you familiar with what it would be like, are caravans readily available for hire and do you know what that process might be like? Yeah,

Lisa Jansen

Absolutely. So most people who hire in New Zealand go for a motor home. So we maybe, you know, terminology like you say, almost the same language, but not, not quite. So a motor home is the term we use for, you know, an RV that has the engine built in and then a caravan is a trailer. And obviously, you know, for a lot of people's come in, if you're hiring a motor home, so much easier 'cause you don't need a separate car. But there's a lot of different providers, it's very popularized and a very popular option for tourists to come to New Zealand to hire a motor home.

Lisa Jansen

Um, so you get them in like all sizes, you know, all sort of fit outs, whether you wanna go really fancy and modern or you really, you know, minimalistic and, and basic. So yeah, lots of options really accessible. Um, most people fly into Auckland or Christchurch and you know, you've got the providers right there as well. So that's really easy.

Tony Barthel

Something that might shock a lot of Americans. You may find that your motor home has a stick shift. <laugh>

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>,

Lisa Jansen

I think most of the rentals these days would be automatic. Um, <laugh>, I think what what might shock you more is that you find the steering wheel on the other side of the motor home. Right. <laugh>. And you'd have to sit on and drive on the other side of the road. <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. That would be, yeah. Probably a quick adjustment. I know our friend Heath and Alyssa took a motor home tour of New Zealand Mm. And really enjoyed it and it was quite an adventure. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

Well you said all sizes, but still in my mind I picture even the motorhomes aren't like these behemoth things that we have in America. No. So by all sizes you don't mean like a 45 foot two story gigantic thing.

Lisa Jansen

No, no, definitely not. So in and for American standards, it'll actually probably be relatively small ones. So in New Zealand, like the, the roads and the campgrounds and all that infrastructure would not be set up for, you know, those massive American abyss. It's like a lot of our roads are still very windy, you know, we're a hilly country, lots of mountains, so Yeah. Yeah. Probably think the smaller end of the scale in America is like the, the bigger end of the scale down here,

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>. Right.

Tony Barthel

I think from what I've seen, it's a lot of what we would consider like AAB plus. Yeah,

Peggy Barthel

Yeah. Like a van from the outside. You might think it's just a van. No,

Tony Barthel

They have like the camper back, you know, like AB plus. Yeah. Okay. And a lot of 'em use the Fiat Ducati, which Yeah. In the US we know as the Ram Pro master <laugh>.

Lisa Jansen

Exactly. Yeah. But you can get, you know, two birth or like two beds, four beds, six beds, um, you know, if you're coming with kids and, and you know, so you, you've got those options for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I wouldn't, I would say that, you know, I personally would go smaller rather than larger in New Zealand just because, you know, it'll just be so much easier to get around and, you know, as a country it's just, we're not set up for massive vehicles.

Peggy Barthel

Then a lot of the areas that are actual campgrounds, not just the freedom camping, but campgrounds, you'll have like what we call full hookup, the electricity hooked up and water and sewer option and things like that. Right. It's, yeah, I know a lot of our campgrounds will have, maybe they'll have electricity, but you need to bring your water or fill your water before you park or something like that.

Lisa Jansen

Yeah. So you pretty much find like everything along that spectrum in New Zealand from, you know, the, the field where you, you just, you know, you pay five bucks a night and then you're allowed to park and, and that's pretty much it through to, you know, where you've got facilities like, you know, toilets and showers in a kitchen, but you don't have the individual hookups at your side all the way through to these, you know, really service camp sites where you hook into power. You know, sometimes you've got the water connection right there. Other times you then, you know, just need to walk, you know, 10, 20 meters over and fill up your barrel and, and, and roll it back.

Lisa Jansen

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah, literally like the whole, whole spectrum. Um, I would say, you know, if that's something that is really important to someone, you know, what sort of facilities are available, it's just worth giving the campground a call and asking exactly how that's set up. But yeah, most commercial, you know, campgrounds have the, the have powered sides where you can plug into power and then the Yeah. Waste facilities and all that stuff. Yeah.

Tony Barthel

My understanding, and obviously I've been, I, I don't have all the information or my information has dated, but are most of the campers there use cartridge toilets, right? Yes.

Lisa Jansen

Yeah.

Tony Barthel

So that's rather

Peggy Barthel

Than a, like what we have a black tank on most of ours and Yeah.

Lisa Jansen

Like we do, you know, we do have black tank motor homes. It's also, we're we're seeing more and more per like in the privately owned space, not in the rental space, but privately owned more and more people looking into composting toilets. I dunno if that's a thing in the US

Peggy Barthel

It's small, but it Yeah, there's a definite

Lisa Jansen

Yeah. Fraction.

Tony Barthel

There are some, but not many. Yeah. But that would, you're right, it would not be in a rental fleet.

Lisa Jansen

Nah. But the, the rental ones here, I think pretty much all of them would have, yeah. We call it the cassette toilet, which I think is a cat rich that, you know, you call it. Yep.

Tony Barthel

Yeah, yeah. Same exact thing.

Lisa Jansen

We should do a dictionary, you know, camping terminology. I know American versus in New Zealand English <laugh>.

Peggy Barthel

I know, I've, all of a sudden I'm like, thinking of all these questions, like how common is it for RVs to have solar systems, solar setups, like solar panels on the roof and

Lisa Jansen

Yeah, you most of them do, you know, even the rental, like the rental ones would have relatively minimalistic, you know, setups. Um, but every privately owned, I think almost every privately owned, um, RV has a proper solar set up and, um, you know, off-grid camping is what we call it here is big, you know, if you own an RV down here, most people wanna be able to be off the grid for a long period of time. Yeah. So you've got, you know, your solar and everything. We also, most RVs are set up to charge the batteries while you're driving. And so, especially with the rental ones where people often drive, you know, every day and, and long distances, yeah.

Lisa Jansen

That really helps to keep batteries charged as well.

Tony Barthel

Sounds good. Hmm. So then we should move on to your book. Yes. 'cause you have all these experiences now put between the covers of your book. How did that come about?

Lisa Jansen

Yeah, so I've, um, I've always, you know, loved writing. It's always just sort of been in my, my DNA and I've actually, um, since I've, you know, became a, a now mad, um, written two other books and, and so this one's the third one. And, um, it was basically a, so last year I, um, I decided to so sell my camper and, and sort of pause the full-time living in a camper for a while. Um, I really miss it now, so I might buy one again soon, but <laugh>,

Lisa Jansen

But as it was coming to an end, I just wanted to, um, I guess reflect on it all and, and sort of relive it and really, I guess, you know, um, remind myself of all the amazing experiences I had and the people I met and all the lessons I've learned. And so for me it's been, you know, it's obviously been like an epic journey around New Zealand, which is a really beautiful country, but it's also been a really quite intense, like, personal growth journey for me. You know, being in, in my thirties and choosing a path very different to most people, you know, around me and my age and, and sort of, you know, making peace with that.

Lisa Jansen

And I guess finding myself in that and, um, you know, figuring out how I wanna lift my life and, and what makes me happy. And, um, and yeah. And so that's how I like started writing it. And then before I knew it, it was, you know, a book and, and now it's out there and people are reading it and <laugh>

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. The book is sort of like stories from the road as well as your personal journey.

Lisa Jansen

So the book's a memoir, so it very much tells, you know, my, my story of those five years and starts with, you know, just that feeling, oh, you know, what am I doing with my life? Everyone's, you know, getting married, settling down, what am I gonna do? And then having that idea of, um, buying a camper and traveling and, and then, um, you know, just the, all the places I've visited and people I met and lessons learned along the way and all, you know, covers all of that.

Tony Barthel

And obviously they can buy your book on your website, which is really well done. And you have a really nice blog too. Yes. Of your stories. And also of course, all the usual places, Amazon, apple books, just

Lisa Jansen

Wherever you buy your books should find it there.

Tony Barthel

Sounds good. So since you spent all those years on the road, do you have a best camping story that you'd like to share with us? <laugh>?

Lisa Jansen

Ah, gosh. One story is, is hard. Like, I think

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>,

Lisa Jansen

The, the best thing for me, I think has been connecting with so many different people from different walks of life that I wouldn't have met in normal life. You know, I, it sort of made me realize that when we live relatively nor like, sorry, I really don't like the word normal life, but you know, when you sort of Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

Because

Lisa Jansen

What is that? Right? But, um, for me, I realized that before I was very much surrounding myself with very similar people doing very similar things and similar ages, similar backgrounds. And then I stepped out of that and, and started to, you know, live and, and travel in this nomad community. And I had the most amazing conversations with, you know, people way older than me, way younger than me. You know, visitors from different countries around the world, different cultures, different backgrounds, um, you know, different life experiences.

Lisa Jansen

And so to me that's been learned so much from it and, um, been one of the, the highlights. Um, and, and, and the other one of course is just like seeing, you know, the country, just the beauty of nature. You know, you after six years, I still constantly stand in awe just how beautiful nature can be and sort of experiencing that, you know, on a regular, it's been really great too. So, so it's not one story, but

Peggy Barthel

<laugh> <laugh>,

Tony Barthel

It's a collection and they happen to be in your book. Yeah. Right. <laugh>.

Peggy Barthel

So on the opposite side of, on the other pole, <laugh> <laugh>, do you have like a terrible memory story? Like worst experience in camping?

Lisa Jansen

Oh God. I had a, um, <laugh>, I had mice in the camper at some point. <laugh>.

Peggy Barthel

Oh.

Tony Barthel

Oh gosh. Oh

Lisa Jansen

My gosh.

Peggy Barthel

It's, that's my winner <laugh>.

Lisa Jansen

I know, I know. Oh, and, and you know what I'm like, usually I'm a very, you know, rational matter of fact calm kind of person, right. But this mouse in my van and I could sort of hear it, you know, crawl around <laugh> between the, you know, deck. It was just like, it gave me such anxiety and, you know, I actually, like, I saw it, I like got it out and I saw it and it was really cute. So the, the mouse itself was quite cute, but having it in my space, and I was for weeks after that, every time there was like the slightest little scratchy noise somewhere, you know, my heart rate was up again, up

Peggy Barthel

Again. I can absolutely relate to that <laugh>. Oh, Peggy hates roads every second of that story. <laugh>. So that

Lisa Jansen

Was, yeah, that was really not fun. Um, and I think the other, you know, um, so the bad times for me when your RV has issues and needs repairs, you know, 'cause I think a lot of people can relate to this when you live in it, right? If, if there's something, like I had a time, um, where the van needed repair, so it wasn't even that big a deal, but they needed, you know, waiting for parts. And so it took several weeks and the van was pulled apart at the mechanic, so I couldn't live in it. And so then you're, you're homeless and you don't have your vehicle.

Lisa Jansen

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so to me that was, you know, I always found that really stressful. 'cause obviously it costs money, but also just the not knowing how long it'll take and sort of people not really appreciating that, you know, it's not just my camper, it's my home. Um, yeah. And it's really, you know, stressful not having that for, you know, three or four weeks. Um, so that's probably the other kind of bad experiences I had.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. The disruption of your life when you're full-time RVing and, and some takes that vehicle outta services. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

That actually makes me wonder, you know, here, full-timers who have had that experience where their home is, you know, unavailable. Is there a, like a high percentage of people who, you know, nomads, full-time type livers in New Zealand?

Lisa Jansen

To be honest, I don't know what the percentage is, but it's definitely not uncommon. You know, there is a, um, you know, there's a Facebook group called Living on the Road in New Zealand, and I think it has a, you know, five or four or 5,000 people and it's only 4 million, 5 million people in New Zealand. Right. So that would be a relatively significant percentage <laugh>.

Peggy Barthel

Sure,

Lisa Jansen

Okay. So yeah, it's definitely a common in life. So especially among retirees, you know, it's quite, quite a common thing to do once you've retired and people, you know, hit the route for a few years. Yeah,

Peggy Barthel

Yeah.

Tony Barthel

Here too. Yeah. Yeah. So that is awesome. Well, we again, really appreciate your time, Lisa, coming all the way, half a world away Yes. To be with us today. And we encourage everybody to check out Lisa's book, life Done Differently, and all of your different social media and such under that same banner. Thank you so much for your time. And we hope to get to New Zealand sooner rather than later. It's definitely

Peggy Barthel

On the, yeah,

Lisa Jansen

On the

Peggy Barthel

List. It's a long list. <laugh>. Yes.

Lisa Jansen

It's the, the downside of traveling in an R va, it doesn't just easily pick into an airplane. You can't just fly it around world

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>

Tony Barthel

<laugh>. That's true. Yeah. But you can hire one there, so that's good. That's

Lisa Jansen

True. Yeah. But hey, thanks so much for having me. It's been really great having a chat, you know, if anyone else, um, who's actually, you know, making plans to come to New Zealand. If you've got any other questions, please do feel free to reach out. Love to hear from, you know, more nomads around the world. My website's life done differently.com and, um, life done differently and Z for New Zealand on all the social platforms. So yeah, I would love to hear from anyone, you know, no matter where you are in the world, and especially if you're coming to New Zealand and you've got questions, happy to answer them.

Tony Barthel

And, and by the way, for, to, to translate again, Z is z, Z for Americans.

Peggy Barthel

Sorry. No, no, that's okay. And we love it and life done differently in Z for New Zealand. Yes,

Lisa Jansen

I know. It's a little differences isn, isn't it? <laugh>?

Tony Barthel

Well that's what makes travel so special is

Peggy Barthel

I don't think 100% of our listeners are American, but I think Oh

Tony Barthel

No, no, without a doubt.

Peggy Barthel

Large percentage for sure.

Tony Barthel

<laugh>. No, we do have listeners in various places. Anyway, it's all good. Yeah. Thank you so much, Lisa. Lisa, thank, thank you. Thank you guys for having me. A pleasure

Lisa Jansen

Meeting you. You too. You too. Enjoy, enjoy your,

Tony Barthel

Our pleasure.

Peggy Barthel

Enjoy your summer. Thank you

Lisa Jansen

So well,

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>, we really should have asked Lisa A. Little bit more about her other books because one of them is the Nomads Ultimate Guide to New Zealand. So if you are wanting to plan a trip to New Zealand, and I mean, we talked about Lisa's experience more than her specific locations. Look into her other book, the Nomads Ultimate Guide to New Zealand.

Tony Barthel

Yeah, that would be a good reference book.

Peggy Barthel

Right. So she did this when she was 33. She started this adventure and I like somehow the number 33 when I was in my early thirties, I dreaded turning 33. I don't know why. You know, some people dread 40 or 50 or 60 or whatever. But I thought 33 was gonna be terrible for no reason. But that was actually the year I got my bachelor's degree. I bought my first new car, I got my first career job. I didn't go zooming around New Zealand for five years, but I did have a good year.

Peggy Barthel

So if you're coming up on that age, don't worry. It's a good one. <laugh>

Tony Barthel

<laugh>, you know, that is 33 is our good friend Lawrence Martin's lucky number. Oh, see. And the Club 33 is the fancy private restaurant at the Disneyland. Disneyland resort at Disney. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

So maybe I knew I'd never go. That's why I dreaded the number. <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Oh, maybe. Who knows? And never say never. You, you might still go.

Peggy Barthel

That's true. So, you know, uh, Halloween is over and that means it's Christmas <laugh> for many, many people. Not yet for us really. I mean, we try to get through Thanksgiving before we move on to Christmas, but knowing that, you know, a lot of people are getting ready to do their Christmas shopping, their holiday shopping, we just wanted to give you a quick reminder that we do have a link on our deals and discounts page for our Amazon store. I mean, it's not our store, it doesn't belong to us, but it is an affiliate link. We do get, you know, a couple cents for the things you buy.

Peggy Barthel

It doesn't change the price that you pay on Amazon, but we do have an RV basics wishlist on there that might help you with shopping for someone that you need to buy an RV gift for.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. Like your own self or

Peggy Barthel

Yourself, <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

It's interesting how that works. Basically, Amazon gives us a teeny tiny cut of whatever you buy, and it helps us with Stressless camping. And it literally does not change your price at all, just like Peggy said. Yeah. So it's a cool deal. So we really appreciate, you know, if you're going over to visit Jeff Bezos, <laugh>, stop by and see us first

Peggy Barthel

And let us know if there's something that you think we should have on that link. It'll Oh yeah, we'll put it on there.

Tony Barthel

Good point. And the way it works is you have to click our link to get over to Amazon and that tells Amazon, Hey, those Stressless camping folks sent

Peggy Barthel

Me. And you don't really see a difference, but Amazon knows that you're there through us.

Tony Barthel

Even if you don't buy what you click the link of, like, let's say you looked at hair extensions Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

New pair of shoes,

Tony Barthel

And then you ended up with a new pair of shoes. It doesn't

Peggy Barthel

Matter. <laugh> it doesn't matter as long as you go through our link first.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. Funny how these things work.

Peggy Barthel

We appreciate

Tony Barthel

That. Yeah, thank you very, very much.

Peggy Barthel

If anybody is shopping for a new rv, do you have any advice for them? Boy, well,

Tony Barthel

First of all, you are, you are at a time when you may get a very good deal because, uh, RV sales have dropped considerably. So RVs are, you know, it was during C-O-V-I-D, it was a seller's market and now it's more of a buyer's market. And so what I looked at, I like stuff that does more stuff, <laugh>. And so I looked at a prototype of a Wildwood Salem unit. Wildwood or Salem, same product, different branding, FSX 2 75 fc.

Tony Barthel

You might look at it and go, oh, that's a toy hauler. And yeah, it kind of is a toy hauler. It's only got like a six foot bay in the back. So it's not really

Peggy Barthel

For short toys. <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Well, it could be like bikes or, yeah. Things like that. What I see this as, as like an office. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but it has four beds that are all 76 inches long. So could be bunks, could be an office, could be a place to, you know, like if you have a hobby Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And then there's a back patio deck too, so I love those. It could just be, I do too. It could be your own private karaoke bar. Oh, <laugh>, whatever. You, you know, it's, it's kind of neat like that, you know, one of the things about toy haulers is a lot of times they're great for your toys and, and they're just, the interiors are blah.

Tony Barthel

This thing is not, um, it has like a bar, which could be like a breakfast bar and it has theater seats and it's a nice interior. Although the cabinets were a little kind of cheapy,

Peggy Barthel

But excuse me, if you're gonna do karaoke, you're gonna need that breakfast bar to be a real bar <laugh>. Yeah,

Tony Barthel

That's, yeah. Right. You could have somebody in the main room mixing up the drinks, <laugh>, and then go out and oh, you know, Sarah's next up on the karaoke stage. And then you and Loyola, oh gosh, remember, remember that time we were at a campground and there was karaoke and it was so loud.

Peggy Barthel

It was so loud and so bad. <laugh>. And it was so bad

Tony Barthel

<laugh>. But it was funny and it just didn't, you know, go to like all hours. But anyway, so this thing is neat in that respect. And then the bedroom, uh, Wildwood and Salem have a new, like versa bed thing. The way that works is it's a power lift for the head of the bed. So you could kind of take the bed and make it almost a seat. Okay. If that makes sense. Like

Peggy Barthel

A couch

Tony Barthel

Almost. Okay. But not quite. So that's the good part of the bed. The bad part is it's only 74 inches long. Eh,

Peggy Barthel

We had that on our first rig. Yeah, we did.

Tony Barthel

Okay. It wasn't meant for us, but some people are really bothered by it. Yeah. So it's something to know. Now, also in the bedroom, our hookups for a washer dryer, so that's unusual. Yeah. And then I like something Wildwood and Salem are doing, they include a bunch of totes with their rigs, which is totes adorbs. They have, yeah, they have totes in the back in that like bunk room area. They have totes under the bed. There's quite a few. And so it's a, there's a lot to really like about this.

Tony Barthel

I'll put a link to the review that I have. It's a neat camper. Uh, what I saw was a prototype. And so there are some things that are not decided. I do really like the interior lighting. They put lights under the counters, so it's kind of like night lighting. Hmm. And that's pretty pleasant. So nifty new trailer potentially from Forest Rivers, Wildwood and Salem Division.

Peggy Barthel

I feel like I interrupted you when you were gonna talk about the cabinets. Yeah,

Tony Barthel

I think they're a little bit cheap. Okay. I, or well, they don't look night. Yeah. I dunno. Let's, what's the, look at the pictures? I'm, I'm just kind of the cabinets not your

Peggy Barthel

Look <laugh>.

Tony Barthel

Well they just, you know what, they remind me of the cabinets in our old aristocrat. Like they're, they look like paper wrapped, low budget cabinets. Ah, gotcha. I mean, there's no other way to put it. However, there is a pullout pantry in the bar, so there's some neat stuff there. Pluses

Peggy Barthel

And minuses. Yeah. Like

Tony Barthel

Anything. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

Hey, we don't wanna forget again, <laugh> <laugh> we have been telling you or forgetting to tell you Yeah. For several weeks about our new vehicle. Yes. We teased you. And then as I said, we did all these other episodes and keep forgetting. And so we promised ourselves that we wouldn't forget this week.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. So what we got is a bigger version of what we had. I mean the bottom line, we bought a bigger pickup truck. Right. We bought the 2,500 version of the Ram pickup. We got the Gasser, the 6.4 liter gasoline va. This one is a four wheel drive. Our previous one was a two wheel drive. This one does not have a cap or camper shell, depending on where you're from, what you call it, <laugh>. However, that's the part that we have been working on. We

Peggy Barthel

Will make another promise that when that is, as that's gelling, we will <laugh> Yes. Give you updates on that. But for right now we have a 2,500 with an open bed. We are trying to decide what goes in that bed that can handle the wet or how we keep it from getting wet for the time being. Well

Tony Barthel

I wanna be, you know, long time listeners know I'm nuts. Right.

Peggy Barthel

Right.

Tony Barthel

And so we can't just get another pickup cap. So what we, we, what I have been working on <laugh> is I wanna make a day camper, weekend getaway camper. And as you know, we do a lot of product reviews of a lot of RV and travel gadgets. Sure. And we have got a garage full of RV and travel gadgets. Right. We have washing machines and cots and solar generators and cooktops and I mean, it's ludicrous how much stuff we have in that garage.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. So my idea was since this one's four-wheel drive and it's a longer bed than the previous one, we could sleep in the back. So what I've been working on is a way to enclose the back. And I have a few options. One of those is potentially a four-wheel pop-up camper Project M. But another one is Afld Topper, which is an inflatable camper shell for lack of a better description. Yeah. What I like about the Project M is you can stand up in it when you pop the top.

Tony Barthel

What I like about the flighted is it's really easy to take off. Right. <laugh>. Anyway, we are still,

Peggy Barthel

So we have our columns, our columns of pluses and minuses for each product. And we're Right. Working ourselves through the, the list and deciding what we wanna do.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. So obviously this would never replace the Rockwood mini light. We might even tow the mini light. Let's say we tow it to a place and then leave it there for a day or two and go into the mountains or on a dirt path. Or one of the things we've talked about is visiting s Gordo in Yeah. The Mojave Desert. And we would never tow a trailer up there, but

Peggy Barthel

If we had a little bit of a truck camper, we could throw our cots in there and our cooktop and our 12 volt powered cooler and we'd have a camper Yeah. To camp in without towing a trailer.

Tony Barthel

Exactly. So it's like a, if you've ever been a fan of George Carlin, he does a thing, a place for my stuff, a

Peggy Barthel

Place for my stuff.

Tony Barthel

And he talks about having the big stuff, which is where your, you know, like your house, what your home is, it's a, it's a storage compartment for the big stuff. And then you have a smaller version of the stuff that would be the mini light. And this would be an even smaller version.

Peggy Barthel

An even smaller version of my stuff.

Tony Barthel

Right. So anyway, that's what we've been working on.

Peggy Barthel

And then if we were like the kind of people who did this, we could throw on a backpack and take an even smaller version and just go into the wild and camp on a sleeping pad or something. True that we carried in

Tony Barthel

<laugh>. Something we could do, if you've been following us for a while again, uh, we had a curt aluminum tray style bike rack on the back of the mini light that got rear-ended. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which got destroyed. Ah, Peggy sees where I'm going with this. We bought a replacement bike rack, another Curt aluminum tray style bike rack and that goes on the back of the mini light. Well,

Peggy Barthel

So we could put on a backpack and e-bike to a tiny spot for an overnighter.

Tony Barthel

Right. We could, yeah. Let's say we wanted to go somewhere. Let's say we took the trailer to a somewhere and we're like, oh, we want to go somewhere where there's great bicycling, but we can't necessarily take the trailer. Well we could take the bike rack off, put it in the receiver of the truck. Of the truck and take the bikes with us too. So,

Peggy Barthel

Right. So many choices. <laugh>. Yeah, that's

Tony Barthel

What I like. I love stuff that does other stuff. Right. Anyway, so there's our gadget of the week is a whole truck load of gadgets. A

Peggy Barthel

Whole truck <laugh>. Yeah. Last week after we heard about Alaska and, and possible caravans to Alaska, our question of the week was, would you be interested in a group trip to Alaska in 2025? I

Tony Barthel

Was surprised how many people said,

Peggy Barthel

I know know, actually lot, a lot, lot more people than she would normally take in a caravan.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. It was a lot of folks.

Peggy Barthel

So if everybody was actually to follow through, we'd have to break it up into two trips or something. <laugh>. But about 30 of you were like, yep, I'm on it. Tell me when. So, uh, we're kicking it around. Right. 2024 is already completely booked. There's nothing we can do.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. This would be 20, 25

Peggy Barthel

Before you, this would be go 2025 if we can do this. And of course it would be in the spring, as she said. She goes late May early June. And so that would be the timeframe. It's not a quick trip. Right. No. I mean it takes 10 days just to get to Alaska and as I mentioned during the interview, you don't go to Alaska for one night to get your sticker and then turn around and leave <laugh>. No.

Tony Barthel

So, well the good thing is what she does is kind of takes you there and turns you loose. Yeah. And so for those who are like, cool, I'm gonna be here for two months. Cool. And if you're like, cool, I'm gonna be here for two weeks,

Peggy Barthel

Two more days and I gotta get home <laugh>. Yeah.

Tony Barthel

Cool. So it would be kind of let's, hey, let's all go here and maybe we'll do X, X and X and then after that it's like, do your own thing or keep joining us. Yeah. Whatever it is that's so it, I like this flexible, not super plan type of stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But by the same token, having somebody kind of hold your hand as you traverse the border and, and just getting there. Yeah. You know, they say get in there is half the fun. But I've heard that's not quite true in Alaska.

Peggy Barthel

<laugh>. So this week, and actually I apologize to whoever wrote me this, but this was a recommended question. How do you feel about site locking fees? So if you make a reservation in a campground and you can pay an extra five or $25 to lock in so that you get exactly the site you want, are you good with that? Are are some of those sites that you know, you want the specific site worth it to you? You know, a lot of times we're going to new places we don't know or care.

Peggy Barthel

Right. Unless I can tell that's the only site that we can get our starlink <laugh>, then I think we'd have to consider it.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. It's funny how it used to be, Ooh, we want a nice shady site. And now I'm like, oh no, I don't want, I don't wanna be near trees. Right. <laugh> because of starlink and solar, you know, technology has changed what we're looking for. Yeah.

Peggy Barthel

So will you, would you, do you pay that extra fee to lock in your site

Tony Barthel

And work? Can you let us know? Well, you can join the discussion at a fun and friendly Stressless campers Facebook group, which is linked on stressless camping.com. We really have a good group of people who are willing to answer questions and not be jerky about it. Yeah. So,

Peggy Barthel

And it's also just fun. If you have fun things you know about camping, eh, share 'em. I like those silly memes and stuff. It's just all about having fun there and being Stressless.

Tony Barthel

Yeah. That's for sure. Another thing you can do while you're at stressless camping.com, it's sign up for our once a week free newsletter, which has links to the stories, videos, podcasts, all that stuff to help you get the most out of your Stressless camping experience.

Peggy Barthel

So while you're on stressless camping.com, you can sign up, either a popup might show up, or you can look at the hamburger menu, sign up for our once a week newsletter that we send you and we don't share your information and we don't sell it, and we just send you that information.

Tony Barthel

That's it. And of course you can also find the show notes for this episode, episode 2 28 at the podcastPage@stresscamping.com. And that's also where you would look to find discounts and deals for the best deals on the things you'll need on your Stressless camping adventure,

Peggy Barthel

Including things that you might wanna buy from Amazon <laugh>. <laugh> Also, you know, if you've got a great deal for our audience, please let us know. You know, we just added two great deals last week. Yep. From Wolverine Tough Bottles and from RV Sauna. We're always looking for more deals that you can take advantage of.

Tony Barthel

Don't forget that we are in all those social places that you like to waste your time <laugh> because so do we. You can find us where we are there. Ooh, that's a bad sentence. <laugh> by jumping off from stresses camping.com. So there's links to all of those wonderful social places where we are

Peggy Barthel

Also, you know, if you don't wanna miss a future episode or if you wanna listen to all the old episodes of Stressless Camping podcast, it's free. It's free to subscribe on any podcast catcher. And we are saving you a seat around our virtual campfire.

Tony Barthel

Yep. And don't forget a review will help others find this podcast. And the more listeners we have, the more places we can go virtually. That's right.

Peggy Barthel

Or

Tony Barthel

Maybe really,

Peggy Barthel

Really <laugh> <laugh> if you've already written a review. Thank you, thank you, thank you a million times. Thank you. And if you haven't, please do. And also though, if you have already written a review and you still think, boy, I sure would like to help, you know, if you see something that we've posted or you find something that a, a blog post or an episode of a podcast that you really, really like, please share it. Share it on social media. Share it by email to your friends, call and tell 'em about it. <laugh> bug the people and line behind you at the grocery store.

Tony Barthel

Hire one of those planes that does the skywriting. Oh, do

Peggy Barthel

That and take pictures. I wanna

Tony Barthel

See it. Yeah, I wanna see that too. <laugh>,

Peggy Barthel

Any sharing that you do helps us, helps more eyeballs and earballs get to us.

Tony Barthel

Yeah, so we really appreciate you If, if you don't already know, thank you so much for joining us every week here in this virtual world, and most of all, Stressless camping.

Mark Ferrell

We hope you learned a lot and had some fun and got some tips for your next Stressless camping Adventure. We're honored by your reviews on Apple Podcasts, which helps others find us too. Don't forget to subscribe so you won't miss out on the adventure, and we look forward to your joining us next week. Until then, happy camping.

Tony Barthel

Whole truckload. Funny how now you know you how now, how now. Brown Cow <laugh>. It's funny how.